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post #71 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 12:38 PM
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No one on here has a dog in this fight. It's your car and your money, do as you wish. But as is the nature of what an online forum is, be prepared to support or defend your decision with facts or experience, or at the very least try to be open minded to the facts or experiences shared by others.

You are happy with your K&N air filters and seem to like them not for their perceived performance gains but for long term cost savings and maintaining them yourself?

If you stick to the Infiniti maintenance schedule of replacing the air filter every 45,000 miles, considering a K&N filter costs ~$50 and an oem filter costs ~$25, you will start to realize cost savings after 135,000 miles...! None of my cars have even half of those miles, even my 20 year old car, so I can't even begin to rationalize this.

As far as you liking to maintain them yourself... why? Every year, for my 25 hp carbureted lawn tractor, I install a new air filter and have to oil the foam pre-filter. Coincidentally, I use the red K&N filter oil so I can verify proper coverage. It's not a big mess, more of a nuisance, but it is recommended/required for my lawn tractor so I just deal with it, but still, yuck...

Now the main concern with K&N air filters that p07r0457, Timothy Sigue and I are trying to express to you is the subpar quality of the filtration of air provided by K&N air filters.

Have you ever rebuilt or even bore scoped your engines? You may be surprised what you find... I've rebuilt several motors and also have an endoscope. I have personally seen the before and after effects of running a K&N air filter. On my buddies car, you could initially start to visually see the scoring on the cylinder walls but couldn't really feel them by touch. Much to my chagrin, he continued running the K&N filter and then they became much more pronounced and that's when he decided to swap back to an oem air filter. Guess what we found after running on the oem filter... no further scoring had occurred! Somehow his compression test results were still good but the damage was done so we ended up sending the head out to be bored and honed and we built the block to support gobs of power. After the money he put into that block, expensive lesson learned but he definitely won't touch a K&N filter ever again.


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Originally Posted by __XIS__ View Post
regardless of some opinions, I have been using K&N filters on multiple cars for over 35 yrs without one single solitary issue. A couple of the cars I have driven over 10 yrs and my EX35 has had one for 8 yrs, the same one. I will continue. It is usually one of the first things I do when it is time to replace a filter. I also like their oil filters, but I don't use them exclusively like the air filters.
I have not mentioned 'power' or any other benefits other than I like them, I like to maintain them myself and I don't like to buy more than one for the life of the car. Batting 1000.0 with them.
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post #72 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by __XIS__ View Post
regardless of some opinions

I have not mentioned 'power' or any other benefits other than I like them, I like to maintain them myself and I don't like to buy more than one for the life of the car. Batting 1000.0 with them.
I do want to state that yes, your opinion as the consumer is completely valid. Never any intent to start a war over things like that. If the product performs for what you want then to me it's doing it's job. I completely get not wanting to replace OEM filters constantly, it does become a pain for time and the wallet very easily.

The ability to positively maintain power is my preference over filter qualities, K&N has been making filters for a long long time, so they definitely do something right. Just not for the applications that I look for overall, most of my vehicles tend to get built on or require a much more substantial flow of air to maintain that power curve. End of day, it really is a preference, I have seen what they can end up doing to a motor regardless of aftermarket brand, and while I can't back them for the applications that I use, they definitely aren't an absolute failure as far as a product.
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post #73 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 01:16 PM
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@Timothy Sigue @tt6
Thanks for your mature replies. Much better received than some.

Yes, I clean/re-oil the filters on all 4 of my vehicles yearly. I have never had to borescope any of my engines for cause. (i work in aviation maint also and understand the borescope)... I might if I had an issue such as diminishing power, MPG, smoking, etc. They work just fine for me and I like better than the restrictive OEM filters.
Maybe the ones with scored walls you have heard of were not properly maintained? That is where I would put my money if I were a betting man...I am sure there are a handful of variable that are not in this discussion that affect the results.

Also - Only once in 35 yrs have I ever cleaned a MAF sensor, and that was just a proactive one last year when I cleaned both throttle bodies on the EX35 and changed the plugs.

If you don't clean or oil them correctly, too much or too little, chances are good that you could have an issue such as the poor filtration or gunked up MAF sensor, etc.

Last edited by __XIS__; 07-20-2018 at 01:19 PM.
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post #74 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 01:29 PM
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@tt6

My break-even point is 20K miles VS 135K miles. I couldn't ever wait 45K miles to change an air filter here in the desert.
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post #75 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by __XIS__ View Post
Maybe the ones with scored walls you have heard of were not properly maintained? That is where I would put my money if I were a betting man...I am sure there are a handful of variable that are not in this discussion that affect the results.
Well, be glad you aren't a betting man because you would lose that bet.
The car was brand new off the dealership floor and we did all the maintenance on that car in my garage since I have more tools than a gearhead weekend mechanic should ever have and he lived in a condo with just a carport and HOA rules about not working on cars on premises. It was a leased car that he planned to buy out so we inspected it with a fine tooth comb before the lease ended, which included the bore scoping. The car was kept bone stock including the oem air filter during the lease/warranty period. Shortly after he bought it out and the warranty expired is when he installed the K&N air filter and the issues started. That's my only first-hand personal experience with K&N air filters, but I have spoken with many engine builders and mechanics during my days on the racing circuit who have also seen similar results from a K&N air filter. FWIW, there are also turbo manufacturers who will void warranties if they find out a turbo was run with a K&N air filter...


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Originally Posted by __XIS__ View Post
My break-even point is 20K miles VS 135K miles. I couldn't ever wait 45K miles to change an air filter here in the desert.
A K&N air filter in that environment makes me cringe... Since you probably have access to a high-resolution video recording endoscope for plane engines, aren't you just a little curious?
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post #76 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 01:41 PM
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Nope. not even a little. And don't be so sure about your bet.
In aerospace, you never go looking for a non-existant problem without symptoms or issues. If you look at even a highly efficient engine, you will find "something" every time.
The guy you are referring to had "issues." I am betting he caused the issues or they were present before the 'filter change' Unless you had a before and after borescope, its anyone's guess... or even anyone's educated guestimate.
I know it is hard to accept, but never had any 'issues' in 35 yrs and multiple autos. A few of those cars have had them for 150K miles and still run great with no issues. No smoking, no loss of power, no deteriorating mileage... One was an off-road vehicle that was raced in the desert, played in mud bogs and in the sand dunes of Yuma. No issues.
What symptoms do you feel a car using K&N for over 10 yrs should have? Happy to say that whatever it is you are thinking of has not occurred on my side.... (KOW)
One thing we will both agree on is if you don't want to use a K&N or if you want to always use an oem filter, you are free to do what you want. Just no blanket statements as those almost never apply....other than the No Orange Clowns blanket statement. Anyone with a brain can't argue with that one.
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post #77 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 05:36 PM
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It scares me that someone as unstable as __XIS__ may be working on aircraft.



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post #78 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 07:36 PM
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@p07r0457. You’re just an arrogant prick. You deserved that note and you deserve much more
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post #79 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 09:47 PM
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If you children can't behave and get along, moderators will be happy to remove you.

Actually, I don't care if you get along, but behave for crying out loud.

Or we'll break out the banhammer.

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post #80 of 83 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 12:51 PM
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Not sure why you continue to try and doubt my findings with K&N air filters which is based on my first hand personal experience, other than it not supporting your opinion of them...

Interestingly, it looks like the FAA has published an advisory circular which includes Best Practice for aviation engine maintenance and service, which happens to include... wait for it... "Documenting borescope inspections and any findings". This obviously needs to be done by a properly qualified mechanic so since you've never done it, then hopefully someone more qualified at your company has.

But yes, I bore scoped the engine before and after the K&N air filter, and then again after switching back to an OEM air filter after the damage was done. There is no guessing what caused it considering I disassembled the motor, inspected the factory internals and ended up building the block.

And before you try to go down that road, I'm a bit more experienced than the typical shadetree mechanic so yes, I actually know what I'm doing and other than sending parts out that need machine work, I have built multiple dyno/street/track proven high horsepower motors in my own garage with my own tools. And tuned them. And raced them.

I guess that's the difference between you and I. I do put more thought, care and energy into things I actually own or have a vested interest in. Different strokes for different folks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by __XIS__ View Post
Nope. not even a little. And don't be so sure about your bet.
In aerospace, you never go looking for a non-existant problem without symptoms or issues. If you look at even a highly efficient engine, you will find "something" every time.
The guy you are referring to had "issues." I am betting he caused the issues or they were present before the 'filter change' Unless you had a before and after borescope, its anyone's guess... or even anyone's educated guestimate.
I know it is hard to accept, but never had any 'issues' in 35 yrs and multiple autos. A few of those cars have had them for 150K miles and still run great with no issues. No smoking, no loss of power, no deteriorating mileage... One was an off-road vehicle that was raced in the desert, played in mud bogs and in the sand dunes of Yuma. No issues.
What symptoms do you feel a car using K&N for over 10 yrs should have? Happy to say that whatever it is you are thinking of has not occurred on my side.... (KOW)
One thing we will both agree on is if you don't want to use a K&N or if you want to always use an oem filter, you are free to do what you want. Just no blanket statements as those almost never apply....other than the No Orange Clowns blanket statement. Anyone with a brain can't argue with that one.
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